Weight

[poodlebell]

hI

For 4.5 years I was stick thin, lost weight coming off seroxat and could not put an ounce on. Last year I started to put weight on, find this odd as I am having to eat the same food everyday so there is no reason for putting on this weight. Di another seroxat sufferer is having the same problem.

Has this happened to anyone else.


When I said about this to the p.doc he said it was age, but I dont believe this as its too much of a coincidence that Di has been off seroxat 3 months more than me and is having the same problem. She has to eat the same food each day as well.

poodlebell

[stan]

since the tapering i was eating much less and become thin; since one/two year i eat more and gained weight, for me paxil seroxat gave me weight (many say paxil gives weight)
and three years after i am gaining weight again

[Sheila]

Poodlebell -- weight is definitely about more than calories in and calories out. I eat the healthiest diet I ever have in my life and I exercise more regularly than I ever have in my life, and I cannot lose the weight I gained on SSRIs.

To be precise, I lost about 25 lbs. at about the 2 year mark post-taper? Can't remember when exactly. But then I stalled, and I still need to lose 20 lbs.

Remember, the gut is turning out to be another brain, and it is going through neuro-endocrinological healing, too.

<------broccoli, super-food

[poodlebell]

Hi Sheila

I wish I could eat broccoli, all veg and fruit make me so much worse, god I am a hopeless case.

I do wonder if its to do with cortisol that causes the weight, then think that I must have had the cortisol problem all the way through w/d so why would it change things now.

I have read about the brain in the gut, at first I could not believe it as have been taught the brain is what makes us function, but do now understand about the gut brain.

poodlebell

[Sheila]

Eventually, you will be able to eat veg and fruit again.

The metabolic problem may include cortisol levels, but it probably involves many other factors, too.

Yeah, isn't it fascinating about the gut brain?

[poodlebell]

Hi Sheila

In case others have not read about the 2nd brain





Enteric nervous system


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The enteric nervous system is embedded in the lining of the gastrointestinal system.
The enteric nervous system (ENS) is a subdivision of the autonomic nervous system (ANS) that directly controls the gastrointestinal system in vertebrates.

It is derived from neural crest.[1][2]





Contents
[hide] 1 Function
2 Anatomy
3 Complexity
4 See also
5 References
6 Additional images
7 External links


[edit] Function

The ENS is capable of autonomous functions[3] such as the coordination of reflexes; although it receives considerable innervation from the autonomic nervous system, it can and does operate independently of the brain and the spinal cord.[4] Its study is the focus of neurogastroenterology.
ENS function can be damaged by ischemia.[5] Transplantation, which had been described as a theoretical possibility in earlier versions of this article,[6] is now (2011) a clinical reality in the United States and is performed at a number of approved centers.[7]

[edit] Anatomy

The ENS consists of some one hundred million neurons,[8] one thousandth of the number of neurons in the brain, and about one tenth the number of neurons in the spinal cord. [Number of neurons in human spinal cord = 1 billion (from Kalat, J.W., Biological Psychology, 6th Edition, 1998, page 24).] The enteric nervous system is embedded in the lining of the gastrointestinal system.

The neurons of the ENS are collected into two types of ganglia: myenteric (Auerbach's) and submucosal (Meissner's) plexuses.[9] Myenteric plexuses are located between the inner and outer layers of the muscularis externa, while submucosal plexuses are located in the submucosa.

[edit] Complexity

The enteric nervous system has been described as a "second brain".[10] There are several reasons for this. The enteric nervous system can operate autonomously. It normally communicates with the central nervous system (CNS) through the parasympathetic (e.g., via the vagus nerve) and sympathetic (e.g., via the prevertebral ganglia) nervous systems. However, vertebrate studies show that when the vagus nerve is severed, the enteric nervous system continues to function. ***Citation Needed***

In vertebrates the enteric nervous system includes efferent neurons, afferent neurons, and interneurons, all of which make the enteric nervous system capable of carrying reflexes and acting as an integrating center in the absence of CNS input. The sensory neurons report on mechanical and chemical conditions. Through intestinal muscles, the motor neurons control peristalsis and churning of intestinal contents. Other neurons control the secretion of enzymes. The enteric nervous system also makes use of more than 30 neurotransmitters, most of which are identical to the ones found in CNS, such as acetylcholine, dopamine, and serotonin. More than 90% of the body's serotonin lies in the gut; as well as about 50% of the body's dopamine, which is currently being studied to further our understanding of its utility in the brain.[11]

The enteric nervous system has the capacity to alter its response depending on such factors as bulk and nutrient composition. In addition, ENS contains support cells which are similar to astroglia of the brain and a diffusion barrier around the capillaries surrounding ganglia which is similar to the blood-brain barrier of cerebral blood vessels.[12]

poodlebell

[Luc]

Folks, as much as they say there's no "miraculous" diet, I have no doubt whatsoeverer that once you limit your carbs intake, your weight will go down (slowly, but surely). I can give you 100% guarantee to it. It may sound unbelievable, but when I was still on SSRIs (5-6 years ago), I reached the weight of 200 pounds. Considering that I'm not a tall person, I was terribly overweight. What I did was to cut down on sweets, potatoes, pastas, bread, dumplings, etc. In 6-8 months I lost 55 pounds, was never hungry, and my lab work/blood tests, and what not has improved tremendously. And I lost it all while STILL being on SSRIs. If I add to it that I didn't do much exercise then too, you probably won't believe me. Yet, I have nothing to financially gain from telling you about it - I'm not peddling any supplements, I don't seek the Dietary Nobel Prize in , etc. :)

I do realize that doctors/media have always said that you have to limit fat in our diet, but as much as counter-intuitive it is, it's carbs that are the worst. Every single person I know of that went on this diet, and was able to hold onto it, lost weight, and was NOT hungry. And, last but not least, their blood tests confirm they're better. Just give it a try.

[Sheila]

More than 90% of the body's serotonin lies in the gut; as well as about 50% of the body's dopamine, which is currently being studied to further our understanding of its utility in the brain

If anyone happens to stumble across more info on this, I would really like to know more about what roles serotonin plays in the the gut. And by gut, are they including adrenals, by any chance?

<---- jolly gut

[poodlebell]

Hi Shelia

found this one and will keep looking

Our Second Brain: The Stomach
States that human stomach has neurotransmitters similar to the brain. Functions of the stomach; How does the stomach communicates with the brain.
By PT Staff, published on May 01, 1999

HEALTH
Ever get a gut feeling about someone, or I anxious butterflies in your stomach? That's because you have a second brain in your bowel, according to Michael Gershon, M.D., author of The Second Brain (HarperCollins, 1999), and a neurobiologist at New York's Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center. Gershon recently explained to PT how an independent network of over 100 billion neurons in the gut not only signals our bodies to stress but causes illness.
Q Why do we need a second brain?
A Most importantly, to control digestion. It also works with the immune system to protect us from hostile bacteria.
Q Does it use neurotransmitters?
A Actually, 95% of all serotonin in the body is in the gut, where it triggers digestion. Nerve cells in the gut also use serotonin to signal back to the brain. This information can train us not to eat certain foods by communicating pain, gas and other terrible feelings

Q Does the brain in our heads influence the "second brain"?
A Yes. Butterflies in the stomach arise when the brain sends a message of anxiety to the gut, which sends messages back to the brain that it's unhappy. But the gut can also work in isolation.
Q How does this brain influence irritable bowel syndrome (lBS), which many believe is a psychological problem?
A Irritable bowel syndrome, whose symptoms include abdominal pain accompanied by loose stool, affects 20% of Americans. But doctors often dismiss its severity, attributing IBS to psychoneurosis because they don't know exactly what it is. I propose that the second brain is the cause. Antidepressants like SSRIs, when used in doses too low to treat depression, are effective immediately in IBS patients. Prozac takes weeks to kick in. This suggests that the drugs work not on the brains of people with IBS, but in the bowel.

Poodlebell

[poodlebell]

Hi Sheila







Fully one-half of your nerve cells are located in the gut, so your capacity for feeling and for emotional expression depends primarily on the gut (and only to a lesser extent on your brain). By the time you add together the number of nerve cells in the esophagus, stomach, and small and large intestines, there are more nerve cells in the overall digestive system than there are in the peripheral nervous system.

Most people would say the brain determines whether you are happy or sad, but they have their facts skewed. It seems the gut is more responsible than we every imagined for mental well-being and how we feel.


Have you ever wondered why people get butterflies in the stomach before going on stage? Or why an impeding ob interview can cause an attack of intestinal cramps? And why do antidepressants targeted for the brain cause nausea or abdominal upset in millions of people who take such drugs? The reason for these common experiences is because each of us literally has two brains – the familiar one encased in our skulls and the lesser-known but vitally important one found in the human gut. …the two brains are interconnected; when one gets upset, the other does, too”.

This “second brain” in the gut is called the “enteric nervous system” (ENS) This “intestinal nervous system” consists of neurons, neurotransmitters, and messenger proteins embedded in the layer or coverings of tissue that line the esophagus, stomach, small intestine, and colon. (The word enteric is a Greek term for “intestine”.)

The enteric nervous system possesses a complex neural circuitry, and this “second brain” in your gut can act independently from, the first brain in your body. Literally, it learns from experiences, remembers past actions and events, and produces an entire range of “gut feelings” that can influence your actions.






Then the two nervous systems link though a neural cable called the “vagus nerve,” the longest of all cranial nerves. (Its name comes from a Latin root meaning “wandering”) The vagus nerve “wanders” from the brain stem through organs in the neck and thorax and finally terminates in the abdomen. This is your vital brain-gut connection.

Gastro-neuro-immunology describes the profound influence and importance of this link between our two brains and its affect on human immune function.


Never Underestimate Your Second Brain
The mass of gray matter between your ears is immensely important to your well-being, but you should never discount the vital importance of your “second brain” – the gut.

The brain is not the only place in the body that’s full of neurotransmitters. A hundred million neurotransmitters line the length of the gut, approximately the same number that is found in the brain…The brain is the bowel has got to work right or no one will have the luxury to think at all”.

Experimental studies demonstrated that “the law of the intestine” operated and digestion continued even when all nerves connecting the bowel to the brain and spinal cord were severed. This convinced the scientists that the enteric nervous system (ENS) was independent from the central nervous system.


Scientists Forgot the Second Brain for 100 Years
After a political conflict within the scientific community, disgruntled scientists at the Physiological Society arbitrarily reclassified the enteric nerves as simply part of the “parasympathetic nervous system” and essentially wrote off the discovery of this “second brain” for more than a century.

Interest in the ENS revived between 1965 and 1967 when Dr. Michael Gershon proposed the existence of a third neurotransmitter, serotonin (6-hydroxytryptamine, 5-HT) that was both produced in and targeted to the enteric nervous system. Dr. Gershon’s proposition was confirmed, and we now know that this neurotransmitter is also found in the central nervous system Serotonin make you feel good. It is crucial for emotional health and balance, and it directly affects the well-being and function of your digestive system.

We are still discovering ways the enteric nervous system mirrors the central nervous system. Nearly every substance that helps run and control the brain has turned up in the gut! Major neurotransmitters associated with the brain- including serotonin, dopamine, glutamate, nor epinephrine, and nitric oxide- are found in plentiful amounts in the gut as well.

The Gut Manufactures Opiates and Mood-Controllers
About twenty-four small brain proteins called “neuropeptides” also appear in relatively high amounts in the gut, as well as major cells of the immune system. Researchers have even found plentiful amounts of enkephalins in the gut-a class of natural opiates in the body. The gut is also a rich source of benzodiazepines-psychoactive chemicals that include such popular mood-controlling drugs marketed as Valium and Xanax.

Karl Lashley, whom many consider the founder of neuropsychology, said in 1951. “I am coming more and more to the conviction that the rudiments of every human behavioral mechanism will be found represented even in primitive activities of the nervous system. This link between the brain and the gut is helping researchers understand why people act and fell the way they do.

Importance of Sleep


Sleep disturbances set up vicious cycles of pain, fatigue, and emotional distress that make sleep even more unlikely. Things don’t improve much during waking hours either for people who do not sleep well. In adequate sleep increases sensitivity to bowel, skin, and muscle stimuli, thus leading to more pain and distress. When you don’t get enough sleep, the divestiture system suffers as a result.

The brain and gut are much alike. Both have natural ninety-minute cycles. The slow wave sleep of the brain is interrupted by periods of “rapid eye movement,” or REM sleep, in which dreams occur. Patients with bowel problems also tend to have abnormal REM sleep, and poor sleep has been reported by many if not most patients with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) and nonulcer dyspepsia (“sour stomach”)

Doctors often treat abnormal REM sleep with mild antidepressant, which may also be effective in treating IBS and nonulcer dyspepsia. However, some stronger antidepressants make digestive problems worse. Once again this points to a link between sleeping problems and stomach problems. Do the two brains influence each other? Probably.



Sleep may very well be the single most important ingredient for digestive health. And it is important to get enough sleep at the right time. Some researchers believe that every minute you sleep before midnight is the equivalent of four minutes of sleep after midnight. Restful sleep will do wonders for your digestion and overall health.
things Go Wrong When Serotonin
Is Robbed from the Gut
Many prescription drugs that affect the brain also affect the gut. Some individuals who take Prozac or similar antidepressants may experience gastrointestinal problems such as nausea, diarrhea, and constipation. These drugs “divert” serotonin from the body to the brain. Unfortunately, this leaves less serotonin for the cells of the gastrointestinal tract.[/U]Normally, the gut produces more serotonin than any other part of the body. This is important because serotonin is liked with initiation of peristalsis (the rhythmic movement of food through the digestive tract). When that supply of serotonin is reduced or stopped altogether, everything related to food digestion goes wrong.[/B]Small doses of Prozac are often used to treat chronic constipation. However, if a little Prozac cures constipation, a lot of Prozac causes it![/B][/FONT]Opiates also have powerful effect on the digestive tract because the gut has opiate receptors much like the brain. Dr. Michael Loes, a pain management specialist and author of The Healing Response, wrote, “Not surprisingly, drugs like morphine and heroin that are thought to act on the central nervous system also attach to the gut’s opiate receptors, producing constipation. Both brains can be addicted to opiates.” Many Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s disease patients suffer from constipation because these conditions impact the “second” brain in the gut as well as the “first” brain and central nervous system.

Anxious? Follow Your Gut Feeling
Fortunately, the Creator equipped the human gut with its own ways of coping with pain and stress. As I mentioned, the gut produces benzodiazepines, the same pain-alleviating chemicals found in antianxiety drugs such as Valium. It seems the gut is equipped to be your body’s anxiety and pain reliever!

If you overeat because you feel anxious, your body may be trying to use the extra food to produce more benzodiazepines. We are not sure whether the gut synthesizes benzodiazepine from chemical in our foods, from bacterial actions, or from both. We do know that extreme pain appears to put the gut into overdrive in order to send benzodiazepine directly to the brain for immediate pain management.

Evidently, if you take care of your gut, it will take care of you. But what happens if you do not take care of your gut? Consider again what Dr. C. Everett Koops said in The surgeon General’s Report on Nutrition and Health in 1988:

Food sustains us, it can be a source of considerable pleasure, it is a reflection of our rich social fabric and cultural heritage, it adds value dimension to our lives. Yet what we eat may affect our risk of several of the leading causes of death for Americans, notable, coronary heart disease, stroke, atherosclerosis, diabetes, and some types of cancer.

These disorders together now accunt for more than two-thirds of all deaths in the United States.

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Poodlebell