Hey, folks, you mention fibromyalgia a lot. May I tell you (though you know it already) that it's absolutely one of the most common WD symptoms. I know hardly of anyone who wouldn't have it in WD. Experiencing it still, too, these days. And, indeed, the CNS is shot to a huge extent b/c of SSRIs - it seems to even create those symptoms w/o any somatic basis, and it's total over-sensitivity to all, internal and external stimuli. The good thing is that our bodies still strive for re-alignment.
Keep walking. Just keep walking.
Poodlebell – Well, I think there’s a lot we still don’t know, and I think there are a lot of things going on in the body during w/d, ie recovery from neuroendocrinological damage.
But, put simply, the antidepressants forced our serotonin to hang around in our synapses longer than normal. Briefly, this meant we had more serotonin to play with.
However, the body always tries to compensate for any kind of medication you take that forces it to do something. (This is the underlying false premise of all Western medication.) So, our bodies removed serotonin receptors from neurons to compensate for the extra serotonin hanging around.
Now, you take away the medication. You no longer are forcing serotonin to hang around, but, now you have fewer serotonin receptors. So, roughly speaking, we may have less serotonin, but we also have too few serotonin receptors.
The brain is always changing in response to conditions, so our brains will eventually build more serotonin receptors.
The problem with taking a very serotonergic substance like 5HTP is that it might possibly send the message to decommision serotonin receptors again, and we wouldn’t want that.
It’s probably safer to try it later in w/d, but, personally, I wouldn’t. The way I think of it is -- if I’m still having symptoms, then my brain is still fragile. I would just focus on more basic nutritional building blocks and then all sorts of other healthy things like exercise, retraining yourself as needed, and discovering and pursuing your passions. These all cause the neuroendocrine system to heal and re-balance.
What do you think about all of this?
Meds free since June 2005.
"An initiation into shamanic healing means a devaluation of all values, an overturning of the profane world, a peeling away of inveterate handed-down notions of the world, liberation from everything preconceived. For that reason, shamanism is closely connected with suffering. One must suffer the disintegration of one's own system of thought in order to perceive a new world in the higher space."
-- Holger Kalweit
Hi Sheila
what you are saying is making good sense, I dont intend to try anything, too frightened but keep wondering if anyone else has tried things and how they got on. I did once try liquorice for the adrenals but it made me really wired, we have to be so careful of everything.
The serotonin and the receptors is put very well and I will remember this. It does seem that we are lacking in serotonin and this is another cause for us not getting better though.
The more we learn the better. All of this has to give hope that the brain will one day rebalance.
poodlebell
Sheila's post is very well, it explains well if adding serotonin is a good idea
Hi Sheila
from antidepressant facts
"But why do I hear people talking about benefits from these SSRI-AntiDepressants?", you might want to ask in this stage. "They surely must work somehow don't they?" The answer is yes, they "work" somehow, but not in a very proper way. The mechanism of action on serotonergic neurons implies a lot of other neuro- endocrine responses. What actually happens when you increase serotonergic neuronal activity or elevate your serotonin levels is this: the stress hormones "Cortisol" & "Adrenaline" (Epinephrine) in the brain and body are triggered by increased serotonergic activity or elevated serotonin levels. It is a natural reaction from the body to combat the excessive serotonin levels. These released hormones, cortisol and adrenaline, are secreted from the "Adrenal Glands." They give the human personality a boost, producing a euphoric state, which can last for a prolonged period of time. In this manner SSRI-AntiDepressants initially produce the deceptive results the doctor and "patient" are both expecting. *
If a patient continues to ingest a particular SSRI-antidepressant over a prolonged period of time, eventually the bodies Adrenal Glands may lose their efficiency and "Adrenal Exhaustion Syndrome" will be the end result. Adrenal Exhaustion causes levels of adrenaline initially to fall and levels of cortisol to rise. Ultimately, also cortisol levels fall. When untreated, Adrenal Exhaustion will lead to seriously declining physical health. Many (former) SSRI-AntiDepressant users reported fatigue as a long term side-effect or were diagnosed with "Chronigue Fatigue Syndrome." People suffering from stress are generally diagnosed with this disorder. Symptoms range from simple exhaustion to much more complex problems that are secondary to excessive output of adrenal hormones in the bloodstream, leading to Adrenal Exhaustion. Unlike the other hormones, it takes a long time before the Adrenal Glands have their adrenaline levels restored. Could we say that the SSRI-AntiDepressant "works" by slowly excavating the body's Adrenal Glands?
poodlebell
Poodlebell -- I find it really interesting that the adrenal glands have serotonergic receptors --
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9888560
Maybe this is part of what they're referring to when they talk about all the serotonin activity in the gut.
Meds free since June 2005.
"An initiation into shamanic healing means a devaluation of all values, an overturning of the profane world, a peeling away of inveterate handed-down notions of the world, liberation from everything preconceived. For that reason, shamanism is closely connected with suffering. One must suffer the disintegration of one's own system of thought in order to perceive a new world in the higher space."
-- Holger Kalweit
Yeah, it’s a good point to consider further, poodlebell – that lack of serotonin impedes healing. I mean, I usually think changes to the serotonin system *cause* my symptoms. But, you’re making an additional point, which is that changes to the serotonin system are also slowing down the healing of the symptoms. I dunno, it just seemed worth emphasizing. I don’t think the answer is to take a serotonergic supplement. But, maybe your line of thinking will lead to another idea. Keep pondering!Originally Posted by poodlebell
Meds free since June 2005.
"An initiation into shamanic healing means a devaluation of all values, an overturning of the profane world, a peeling away of inveterate handed-down notions of the world, liberation from everything preconceived. For that reason, shamanism is closely connected with suffering. One must suffer the disintegration of one's own system of thought in order to perceive a new world in the higher space."
-- Holger Kalweit
Hi Stan
you are right
What does Scientology say about medical drugs?
In public statements, especially to newcomers, Scientology claims that medical drugs are fine and says there's no problem with Scientologists taking drugs prescribed by a physician.
However, in materials presented by Scientology front group Narconon, they claim that all drugs are poisonous and remain in the body permanently - claims that are thoroughly discredited by modern science.
Psychiatric drugs are seen differently: Scientology forbids the use of all psychiatric drugs, and works to prevent non-Scientologists from using them as well. Scientologists are vehemently opposed to all forms of psychiatry - not just for themselves, but for everyone.
Although Scientology publicly states that they don't interfere with individual Scientologists taking prescribed medication, several former members have reported being told to stop taking prescription drugs and suffering negative consequences if they went ahead and kept taking them. Since these drugs were prescribed for serious medical conditions, including epilepsy and Grave's disease, these individuals were at serious risk if they stopped taking the medication.
Finally, Scientology claims that taking aspirin interferes with forming mental images, so participants are forbidden from getting auditing for 24 hours after taking aspirin.
Poodlebell
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