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Thread: kindling effect

  1. #1
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    kindling effect

    Hi guys, I hopeing for some advice.

    Here is my story

    What I really want to know is 'is a kindling reaction the same as an adverse reaction' please if you have the time read my story and advise as to what I should do, and what hope is there for me, was this an ADVERSE reaction or a KINDLING reaction? are they the same thing? and am I guarenteed a 2 year recovery period or is there hope I could recover faster?

    ok, here it is....

    The first time I was on celexa was because I was very physically ill and the dr just prescribed it, I didnt even know what it was and I didnt need it.

    9 weeks ago I had an adverse reaction to restarting celexa after being off for 6 months(ish)

    I CT off celexa the first time and only had head zaps, no problem never thought anything of it. Then 9 weeks ago I had an asthma attack that led to a panic attack. I had never had a panic attack before so I thought, I know, Ill go and get that AD that the dr had me on before, that will stop me having another one of those things....

    Thats when my life turned into a living hell...

    I took the first 20mg and felt a little funny that day, I started to feel anxious and couldnt figure out why I thought perhaps it was the lingering memory of the panic attack.

    That night I had another panic attack

    So the next day (being ignorant) I thought I would double my dose and take 40mg so as to calm down the feelings (thinking that ssris work like benzos) WOW that day was horrific, I started looking online and realised it was the cit, and thought it must have been bad side effects. well Im not taking anymore of this I thought.

    So day 3 I took nothing but still felt absolutely AWFUL my anxiety was through the roof and I began to panic that it wasnt the meds that it must be me.

    So day 4 I awoke in a panic attack and took 10mg, I will never forget that day, my mum had just arrived to visit me from Spain where she lives and I tried to go for a coffee with her, I couldnt get to the end of the street the SEVERE anxiety was overwhelming, I have never felt anything like it.

    I went home and because I couldnt handle the light shut the curtains in the bedroom and lay on the bed. But I was overwhelmed with wave after wave of SEVERE anxiety, SEVERE aggitation, I couldnt speak only beg for help, I couldnt cry, I could stand any sounds or lights, I was SEVERELY confused and I have to say it was the worst I have ever felt, EVER. Dread and Terror were the only only emotions in me.

    The next day I started taking 20mg again but I remained in this state for 3 days, unable to move.

    Afetr 3 days I was able to cry, I cried and it was great, but all the other symptoms were still there, calling the drs they said - this can be normal keep going. I was so scared I just did as I was told.

    Over the next week I was severely anxious and aggitated but also began to get other symptoms such as SEVERE D/P and feeling disconnected from the world, I was able to leave the house without running home but it was so dream like and I had to hang onto my mum for dear life.

    The next week was the week before my period and I thought as I was able to leave the house the week before that things may start top improve - WRONG - I was launched straight back to sqaure one this week, I now realise it was because of my hormones around that time. My symptoms lasted all day, and all night, I couldnt eat, I was severely anxious and aggitated at all times, I was having moments of rage (wow, never felt that before) and began to sink into a terrible deep depression.

    I stayed at 20mg for nearly 6 weeks and no showed no improvement or any sign of these terrible feelings going away, I went between crying and suicidal thoughts and when that would stop the next wave of chemical anxiety would rush over me. My brain was throbbing and I was having severe confusion so I would sit on the loo and pee without taking off my jeans.

    I went to the drs and sried that this wasnt right, it wasnt normal after 6 weeks to still feel like this, they rang the Pdoc who said..the effects of celexa would have worn off by now and I must have a severe underlying condition!!!!!

    WHAT???? Well you could have fooled me! The dr wanted to try me on another drug but I said no way, I only started taking this because of 1 panic attack, and it shocked me to think I would be getting on the drug merry go round. I cut my dose down to 10mg that night.

    After 3 days I felt a little better on the 10mg, I was still having terribel chemical anxiety and depression but the d/p and confusion were much improved. But then 3 days later my pre period week kicked in and I went downhill again, I took back to my bed and was in an agony of mental torture.

    I went to a different dr who again phoned a pdoc, he said what I needed to do was go to the maximum dose of celxea and to go back upto 20mg straight away with a view to going upto 40. Once again I did as I was told.

    I took 20mg for 2 days and went upto 30, I was suicidal, I saw no point in living anymore and began to make plans for how I could kill myself without my hubby and son seeing me and causing minimal pain to them.

    All I could do was cry and shiver.

    Then, I came across an account of someone who had suffered an adverse reaction, I read about the kindling effect and it all clicked. This is what was happening to me, at last something made sense. A terrifying sense seeing as most people take 2 years to recover but i saw myself in it and I knew it wasnt an underlying condition, my brain hadnt snapped or broken.

    So after the 5 days on 30mg I decided to come down again, I did a few days on 20mg and have now been on 10mg for 2 days (I will take dose 3 today)

    My days now are strange, I am terrible in the morning, high anxiety that doesnt belong to me, I shake all day long and have headaches, but my evenings are ok. I sleep well and often feel tired during the day.

    But thats if Im sat alone in my bedroom, I tried to go to a museum the other day with my hubby and son and it was a disaster, my anxiety was through the roof, I wasnt anxious and I tried every trick in the book, I wasnt scared of it but it stuck around anyway, its chemical, I dont recognise it and it doesnt belong to me.

    I came home and cried for everything I have lost.

    I signed off work and cant see myself going back anytime soon, Im depressed and anxious most of the time and my hubby is already sick of it. I have a 3 year old boy who I love so much but feel like I can no longer be a proper mum to him. I NEVER thought this would happen to me.

    Im hoping there are people out there who recover from an adverse effect quicker than the 2 year mark, if anyone has any positive info I would love to see it.

  2. #2
    Founder Luc's Avatar
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    Hello, Iggy! Welcome to IAWP. First of all, I'd like to assure you that, as much as it's hell for you right now, you will eventually heal from it.

    Well, adverse reaction is simply bad reaction to a drug, while kindling effect happens upon re-instating it. Overall, the healing timeline from an adverse reaction is shorter than in case of the long-termers, for instance. Though, within adverse reaction realm, it's hard to predict exactly how much it may take between individual cases.

    Though I read of some cases when, eventually (sometimes up to 8 weeks or longer), the body is able to catch on the reinstatement, very often pushing on brings only more suffering. It all really depends on a person. The final decision should always belong to you - if there's no improvement happening for too long, or the situation is even worsening, then the margin of hope for the re-instatments shrinks.

    If you had enough strength (I know how much you're suffering right now), please put a short description of your personal story in your signature - this way we will be able to help you better.

    As much as you would like to somehow be able to function better (your family and your little son), do *not* try to push things now. Withdrawal is *not* real you, it's a "chemical unreality". Just take it easy. It's terrible suffering - I have been there. Your body needs now time and your patience. Also, please have a look at this (post 167 in this thread) http://antidepressantwithdrawal.info...highlight=push and this http://antidepressantwithdrawal.info...-Neuro-emotion



    There will be more ideas soon from the forumers.
    Keep walking. Just keep walking.

  3. #3
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    Thanks so much for the reply Luc, I cant find how to update my sig>

  4. #4
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    Click "Settings" in the right upper corner, then, in the 3rd box from top on the left -> "Edit signature"
    Keep walking. Just keep walking.

  5. #5
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    testing
    Put on citalopram July 2009 during a physical illness - didnt need it. 40mg
    went down to 20mg July 2010 CT in Jan 2012 - 2.5 years on.
    Tried to restart July 2012 due to 1 panic attack (never had one before - start of CT W/D) - adverse reaction
    Down to 1.5mg from the failed RI
    Now at 0.48 and trying to stabalize - been 6 weeks
    now have SEVERE anxiety, akathsia, feel like Im on acid 24/7 depression, D/P, signed off work. Scared of everything..please God let me heal from this

  6. #6
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    I have felt a little better now I have been down to 10mg for a week. not BETTER but not suicidal and I havent been in bed all day, I stay downstairs all day.

    But next week is my pms week and throughout this I have had a real bad time over that week and the next week.

    I want to get off the cit as soon as possible but the people on paxil Progress have told me to take it really slow and wait until the end of october before dropping any more. I hate it but Im so scared of feeling ok for 6 weeks and then all hell breaking loose again which I have read about lots of times, is that usually the case more in long term takiing and w/d or is it likely to happen after an adverse reaction?

    I have been on for 9 weeks now so long enough to go through w/d, and phase 2 of w/d which seems to come on weeks after stopping.

    When I drpped to 10mg a week ago, I had some DP for a few days but that has gone now, I am just left with anxiety feelings for NO REASON AT ALL!!

    Sometimes I can feel that its my own fear of anxiety but other times, like right now I was feeling ok and now Im feeling anxiety and a hot head, I just wish it would stop.
    Put on citalopram July 2009 during a physical illness - didnt need it. 40mg
    went down to 20mg July 2010 CT in Jan 2012 - 2.5 years on.
    Tried to restart July 2012 due to 1 panic attack (never had one before - start of CT W/D) - adverse reaction
    Down to 1.5mg from the failed RI
    Now at 0.48 and trying to stabalize - been 6 weeks
    now have SEVERE anxiety, akathsia, feel like Im on acid 24/7 depression, D/P, signed off work. Scared of everything..please God let me heal from this

  7. #7
    Founder Sheila's Avatar
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    Welcome to IAWP, Iggy. I’m so sorry you are going through this hell. You will definitely, definitely heal from it. I am just horrified at how you have been treated by health professionals. There is no way your experience is typical of a medication start-up, yet that’s what you were told.

    How long were you on Celexa before you CT’d it 6 months ago? What was your dose? How did you tolerate it?

    There are several things going on with you at the same time – 1) you were starting to have w/d symptoms from the first time you CT’d Celexa, 2) you reinstated and your body basically just said no to the drug, 3) you have been up and down on dose several times recently.

    So, there are several reasons why you might be having such a hard time. Basically, you will want to find the right low dose to stabilize on, and then taper from there.

    There is no way to know how long you will have symptoms. You might have a very short, easy w/d. Many people do.

    You say you have asthma. Are you taking any steroids? Prednisone? Do you know that they can cause anxiety?
    Meds free since June 2005.

    "An initiation into shamanic healing means a devaluation of all values, an overturning of the profane world, a peeling away of inveterate handed-down notions of the world, liberation from everything preconceived. For that reason, shamanism is closely connected with suffering. One must suffer the disintegration of one's own system of thought in order to perceive a new world in the higher space."
    -- Holger Kalweit

  8. #8
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    Hi Sheila, thanks so much for your reply. I was on citalopram for 2 and a half years.

    When I was put on I didnt know what it was and looking back I did have unexplained anxiety during start up but I was so physically ill at the time and knew nothing about the drugs so I put it down to other things. But is was not like this..

    I was on 40mg for a year then 20mg for a year, I CTed in Jan this year, is it really possible that 6 months later I start to have w/d? My body has definitly said NO to this drug, it hates it, and its proof by the fact that each time I have come down in dose I have felt better, but Im scared of coming off it now and facing a horrible reaction weeks after stopping.

    I wasnt taking any steroid preventer inhalors before but its got so bad (like I cant walk down the street) now that I have had to get one, I need to take it even though it may increase my anxiety.

    Ive been back to the drs today and it was obvious that she didnt believe me about having a bad reaction to cit this time around.

    But what to do now? Ive been on the 10mg for a week, but next week is my pms/pmt week and then the week of my period, my experience over the past couple of months has been that I get alot worse during these weeks, do you think after those 2 weeks (therefore 3 weeks on 10mg) that I could go down to five and then go really really slowly from there?

    My body hates this drug so much it seems logical to get it out of my system asap but I dont want to make things any worse. Its not going to settle in my system, I know that, so what now?

    Do you think there is a chance that I wont have a protracted w/d from this? from what I understand the chaos I have sent my cns into will take upto 2 years to recover from, but what if I throw w/d in there too?

    Im really scared and your advice would be wonderful.
    Put on citalopram July 2009 during a physical illness - didnt need it. 40mg
    went down to 20mg July 2010 CT in Jan 2012 - 2.5 years on.
    Tried to restart July 2012 due to 1 panic attack (never had one before - start of CT W/D) - adverse reaction
    Down to 1.5mg from the failed RI
    Now at 0.48 and trying to stabalize - been 6 weeks
    now have SEVERE anxiety, akathsia, feel like Im on acid 24/7 depression, D/P, signed off work. Scared of everything..please God let me heal from this

  9. #9
    Founder stan's Avatar
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    hi Iggy,

    there are some people who after a good month are really better; and other people who fall in withdrawal during months; we cannot know in what category you are, time will show it; apparently you seem not well; i have all your symptomes and more but was drugged during years; we know doctors deny withdrawal, i had no help from my psychiatrist and doctor, only prescribing more meds;
    12 years paxil(9 years only 10 mg) - cold turkey(1,5 month) and switch celexa tapered 1 year 20 mg
    62 years old - for GAD - 4 years 3 months meds free [since april 2009]

    vegetables soup - orange (vit C) - curcuma - some meat or fish

  10. #10
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    Yes, Iggy, it is absolutely possible to have unnoticeable w/d effects (there may be some there but misinterpreted) for up to 9 months, and then have w/d kick in with a boom. I have seen it on pp.

    OK, regarding the steroid, just be aware that they cause anxiety in people who have not been exposed to SSRIs, and even more anxiety in people who have been exposed to SSRIs. So, if I were you, I would start researching every possible alternative treatment that would allow you to at least lower your dose. Did you know that asthma sometimes can have a psychological component? I know you are in a terrible state right now, but do you think you might be able to tolerate some psychotherapy?

    Also, I know that an asthma attack is an unstoppable force, but I would consider really working on breathing exercises when you are *not* having an asthma attack. That will help prevent them.

    That is so terrible and upsetting about the doctor not believing you.

    I’m a bit unsure about whether you should drop from 10 mg to 5 mg in 2 weeks. Normally, I would recommend a smaller drop. But, you may be having the kind of adverse reaction where you will do better if you get off faster. Why don’t we see how you are in the next two weeks?

    Yes, I think there is a strong chance that you won’t have a protracted w/d. Most people don’t. Even if you were to have w/d for awhile, I guarantee it will not stay like this. You are currently in a horrible condition brought about by the reinstatement, the multiple recent changes in dose, and the high dose. It will only get better from here.

    <----Iggy flying free
    Meds free since June 2005.

    "An initiation into shamanic healing means a devaluation of all values, an overturning of the profane world, a peeling away of inveterate handed-down notions of the world, liberation from everything preconceived. For that reason, shamanism is closely connected with suffering. One must suffer the disintegration of one's own system of thought in order to perceive a new world in the higher space."
    -- Holger Kalweit

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