Psychotherapy

[Luc]

I agree all this, i could not say better with my frenglish

Haha! Stan, you are doing great!

[Chris]

do be open to the possibility that your psychological issues (and we all have them) are interweaving with the neurological symptoms of w/d.

Sheila--synergy--I was thinking about this and you put it really well. There are so many implications of your statement. This may be why one approach to recovery doesn't fit everyone in w/d, and why we are the vanguard.Given the human need for certainty, we are the vanguard in learning to live with uncertainty as we head into unknown territory.The unknown can be very scary or it can be compelling like an adventure. Lewis and Clark, the great explorers
I think this is perhaps one reason the medical establishment can dismiss our experiences with ADs. They look at it as either/or--symptoms are either about the individual person or they're about the drug. But what if it's both and such complexity can't be accommodated with the given paradigm? then the human tendency is to set up an either/or situation and almost always select the option that confirms preexisting assumptions and actions--thus self-perpetuating an error. by the same token, I make a mistake if I think all my problems are caused by w/d.

The western paradigm is to treat symptoms with the assumption that the particular singularity of each person's road to those symptoms doesn't matter. Because they want to treat an absolute without variables --it's simpler if they can just give everyone the same drug.
Acupuncture is more than just needles--the doc looks at the tongue and the pulse and much more. They treat the wholistic condition of the individual in the moment. The treatment that works for me wouldn't work for everyone.
Even within individual experience, there are differences in w/d symptoms at different times. When I did my first taper years ago I had not discovered my food allergies, such as gluten.During that w/d I had really bad GI problems which made sense bec. of serotonin receps in the gut, but that was not the whole story. I was also messing up my gut with gluten. Now that I have eliminated food allergies, (knock on wood) the gut problems aren't near as bad in my current w/d.
I suspect that even the experts don't know everything about all the ways brain chemistry affects all the body's systems. For instance, actual levels of serotonin in the human brain at any given time can't be measured.

[Sheila]

annie -- Yes, yes, yes! Absolutely. People want certainty and they want things to be black and white. And when you’re talking about mind, body, and spirit, things are all interwoven, interacting, feeding back. And we are talking about a complex health situation with many contributing factors. Concomitently, the solution is usually complex, multi-faceted, and unique, as you say.

And, we always have to watch out for that tendency to protect our own sacred cows.

Re your gluten situation, Maie Liiv, a psychiatric iatrogenesis survivor, who has a website -- http://www.maieliiv.com/

sent me this –

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/

and wrote -- “Christine Harrington says the brain's response to wheat is worse when the blood brain barrier has been compromised - [by] drugs – [or] ECT…”

and I have seen people in psych med w/d go through a period of gluten sensitivity and then emerge from it, so you may find that’s true for you.

[stan]

psychotherapy!!!
instead of paxil i have needed this, but it never occured,
i never do psychotherapy, only 8 months psychiatrist analysis who wanted to prescribe me as i was tapering

[Luc]

The problem is that the closest family, the loved ones, the most empathetic and greatest of friends, even them, at some point, simply give up. The perfect idea would be a psychotherapist who understands WD, and, even if s/he is not able to do much for us as far as alleviating the symptoms goes, s/he can, at least, validate this stuff and tell the patient "it's going to get better" over and over again.

It's a very crappy metaphor, but trying to fight WD obssessions/monstrous OCD/ruminations/paranoia, especially in the early stages, is like trying, by using a mop, to clean a chimney off of the sod. The problem is that those symptoms have their root cause at the bottom of the chimney, and the very source of the smoke, sod, everything, is there.

So, you try to clean it, but the smoke and sod are coming up in gigantic billows. And, the more you try, the more frustrated, and the more covered in smoke and sod you become. Plus, at the bottom of the chimney, there is sitting our Subconsciousness, and every time we try to stop the smoke and sod from coming up, this insidious pathetic monster adds more wood into the fire-place.

At the present stage, despite the still present symptoms, I consider myself very lucky to have been able to get to this point - it's much much better in terms of OCD and ruminations. You can probably rememeber what it was like in the early WD - this feeling of being plugged to some electrocuting machine (or the acid-pumping one). You felt it in every cell of your body (your brain and your conciousness being the main victim of the acid), hallucinating from the suffering. And, despite it all, it's managed to get better, and reach the point when *some*, not that much yet, but *some* ability to reason with my own absurd thoughts has become more possible. At that phase, meeting the "perfect psychotherapist" - the one that *knows* about WD, may for some be of quite a help on their way towards healing. But only to some, and only at that stage.

What has helped me most in the early WD were these two things;

1. my being aware it is WD
2. not fighting the thoughts - some may interpret it as "accepting" them. For me it's more "not fighting" them, b/c it'd be equally hard for Winston to "accept" the fact of being tortured in Room 101 in 1984...

And, also, keeping telling yourself, "IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT", "IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT" over and over again.

After having written this post, I realized how much it has improved comparing to the hell of hells of the early WD. So, to those who are not at that stage yet, do know that it GETS BETTER, and to the veterans, WE HAVE COME A LONG WAY, AND, DESPITE YOUR NOT BEING THERE YET, THE EARLY WD WILL NEVER BE BACK!

[Mike]

Well said, Annie. I've known a few people with withdrawal who have tried therapy and when I ask them about how it feels to be in therapy when they aren't sure there therapist believes them they said "we don't talk about withdrawal" we just work on the issues. I don't know how that can be done. As you say it's a fundamental rejection of your experience. I tried therapy early on and the therapist was so checked out and hinted over and over again that he was on meds. He didn't believe me and would say things like "I worry about hypochondria." The psychiatrist who did the most damage (reckless polypharmacy) said "you've really become a poster child for this, haven't you?" When I said something he didn't want to hear he just walked to the door, opened it and said "have a nice summer." I saw a nurse practitioner who sort of listened and gave me a little bit of hope but then tried to avoid me and got inexplicably angry at one point. Next was the physcian's assistant who upon hearing my story tried to keep things light with jokes and then earnestly asked me if I wanted a new generation antipsychotic. Almost an identical experience minus the jokes from a student health center physician. Then came my current internist who is the most open and respectable of the bunch but beyond extensive testing, there was nothing else she could really do. And when it comes right down to it I don't think she really wants to talk about my iatrogenic issues. Either that or we both just realize how pointless it is. But it's kind of weird going in there for common health issues and her never asking me how I am doing neurologically. At a certain point it just became to much for me tell my story and not be believed. I am not suggesting this for others but I've basically stopped seeing any sort of traditional health care professionals and I've found it empowering. I care more about myself than to endure that sort of masochism. I should say that doctors do some things very well and I am sure one day I will need their services one day but I am living the most healthy life I can with the hope that I won't have to.

I think psychotherapy could be extraordinarily helpful if the issue was out in the open and there was awareness, specific education, and training. Sheila's suggestion to find a therapist with specific experience working with chronically illness is good. At least there would be understanding of the loss and daily struggles that come with chronic illness but again I would need someone who believes me or at least who was willing to really learn about the issue.

[Luc]

I think psychotherapy could be extraordinarily helpful if the issue was out in the open and there was awareness, specific education, and training.

EXACTLY!

But, as much as it is now hard to believe, we will get to this point. It is unavoidable. They will *not* be able to sweep it under the carper no matter how they tried. There are *no* such big carpets, but there are tens of millions of people on ADs in the U.S. alone, and worldwide it is like probably close to an order of magnitude higher. So many of them will be suffering from WD, adverse reactions, monstrous side-effects, and then... then the psychiatrists money-making, control-enforcing iatrogenic schtick is up.

[Mike]

EXACTLY!

But, as much as it is now hard to believe, we will get to this point. It is unavoidable. They will *not* be able to sweep it under the carper no matter how they tried. There are *no* such big carpets, but there are tens of millions of people on ADs in the U.S. alone, and worldwide it is like probably close to an order of magnitude higher. So many of them will be suffering from WD, adverse reactions, monstrous side-effects, and then... then the psychiatrists money-making, control-enforcing iatrogenic schtick is up.

I worry about the power of that schtick, especially when 99.9% of people believe it.

[Junior]

LOL@ "frenglish" !!!

[Sheila]

MORITA THERAPY

BRIEF HISTORY

MoritaTherapy was developed by Japanese psychiatrist Shoma Morita beginning in 1919, and was influenced by the principles of Zen Buddhism. His method was initially developed as an inpatient treatment for a type of anxiety neurosis called shinkeishitsu. In the latter part of this century the applications of Morita therapy have expanded, both in Japan and North America, for use in a wider variety of clinical and educational settings and to address a greater variety of human concerns…..

BASIC CONCEPTS

The Naturalness of Feelings (Arugamama)

Morita Therapy observes that feelings, even extremely challenging feelings, are quite common in the human experience. Most people in their lifetime will encounter feelings of grief, depression, and anxiety. These feelings from a Morita Therapy perspective are not in and of themselves pathological. In some cases, however, our attention becomes fixated on trying to avoid or overcome unpleasant feeling states. Our focus and energy becomes diverted to trying to “deal with our feelings” and in the process we lose our focus on the actions necessary to maintain an effective and purposeful life. Morita considered anxiety as a problem of misdirected attention; that is that feeling anxious was normal but becoming so fixated on our feelings of anxiety that it interferes with doing what needs to be done was problematic…..

Feelings are Uncontrollable; Actions are Controllable

Many western therapeutic methods focus on trying to successfully manage or modify our feeling states. The underlying assumption is that if our feelings can be altered or reduced we will be more able to live meaningful and effective lives; that it is our feelings that hold us back.

Morita Therapy challenges this assumption at many levels. First of all we might ask if any amount of therapy would alter or diminish the feelings of anger, fear, and sadness we would be likely to experience if someone we loved was diagnosed with cancer. If this were possible would it even be desirable? Certainly some people relate more effectively to these feelings as they arise. Some people aremore able to live with these circumstances and function effectively, but is this really the result of altering the quality of their feelings?….

Secondly, is it accurate to assume that we must "overcome" fear to jump off the high dive at the pool, or increase our confidence before we ask someone out for a date?….

Finely, our feelings, though unpleasant at times, are useful. People who find ways to alter and control feeling states; to detach themselves from the normal emotional responses to circumstances do not achieve happiness and health. Perhaps the best example of this is addiction…..

Once we learn to accept our feelings we find that we can take action without changing our feeling state. Often, the action-taking leads to a change in feelings. For example, it is common to develop confidence after one has repeatedly done something with some success….


In Western psychotherapy there are a great many labels which purport to diagnose and describe a person's psychological functioning - depressed, obsessive, compulsive, codependent. Many of us begin to label ourselves this way, rather than investigate our own experience. If we observe our experience, we find that we have a flow of awareness which changes from moment to moment…..

Ultimately, the successful student of Morita therapy learns to accept the internal fluctuations of thoughts and feelings and ground his behavior in reality and the purpose of the moment. Cure is not defined by the alleviation of discomfort or the attainment of some ideal feeling state (which is impossible) but by taking constructive action in one's life which helps one to live a full and meaningful existence and not be ruled by one's emotional state.

The methods used by Morita therapists vary. In Japan, there is often a period of isolated bedrest before the patient is exposed to counseling, instruction and work therapy. In the U.S., inpatient Morita therapy is generally unavailable, and most practitioners favor a counseling or educational approach, the emphasis of which is on developing healthy living skills, learning to work with our attention, and taking steps to accomplish tasks and goals. For this reason, Morita therapy is sometimes referred to as the psychology of action.


http://moritaschool.com/content/morita-therapy