Cytokine storm, Paxil flu, detox flu, healing crisis

[Sheila]

Perhaps this is a piece of the puzzle.

Cytokine storm is an extremely severe immune reaction. It happens when the immune response to a pathogen (virus, bacteria, parasite, etc.) or antigen (could be organic or could be chemical toxin) gets out of control and swamps the body. Symptoms include high fever, swelling, overwhelming fluid and immune cell presence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm

I *do not* think any of us is having a full-on cytokine storm, because a true cytokine storm is on a par with anaphylactic shock and you would need emergency intervention to survive.

But, what I’m wondering is it we are having a mild cytokine stormlet in w/d in general, and especially when we’re having the Paxil flu and also when some of us are having detox flu.

In fact, “cytokine sickness behavior” is the more mild version of cytokine storm, and it occurs when you get any infection. “Such illness responses include lethargy, depression, anxiety, loss of appetite, sleepiness, hyperalgesia [pain sensitivity], reduction in grooming, and failure to concentrate.” It serves an adaptive purpose – it is self-protective and conserves energy for healing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickness_behavior

Interestingly, in the last decade or so, it seems like there is a new theory that depression is caused by inflammation (cytokines promote an inflammatory response). People with depression have been shown to also have a high level of cytokines.

So, do antidepressants lower cytokines? Yes and no. It’s complicated because there are many types of cytokines and many different antidepressants, but a meta-analysis of several studies concluded that some antidepressants – especially SSRIs – lowered several kinds of cytokines.

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v3...p2011132a.html

Therefore, when you take an antidepressant for a long time and then stop, you could conceivably have cytokine rebound, right? This could explain the “Paxil flu” that people get while tapering and in early post-taper. It could also explain the bouts of Paxil flu or even some mis-identified flus and viruses that people episodically have for a long time after last dose. And, it could contribute to explaining some of the overall malaise and crappy feeling of everyday w/d.

Lastly, cytokine mini-storm may explain part of what’s going on for those of use who are attempting some sort of detox and having episodes of feeling flu-ish. This detox flu is a long-recognized type of “healing crisis.”

Therefore, part of what causes any type of healing crisis may be a cytokine mini-storm, or inflammatory response. Episodic mild to moderate temporary inflammatory reactions seem to be an almost unavoidable part of healing entrenched, chronic, systemic illnesses. But, if they are too intense, they become counterproductive, causing harm to the body, and not being very effective at neutralizing the original antigen. This is true for anyone healing from an illness.

But, this becomes even more of an issue for us with our hyper-reactive nervous systems. We have to keep any treatment we try at a mild enough level, that it provokes only a mild, transient inflammatory response. And, we may have to wait until we’re stable enough to try even that.

[Luc]

That's some really interesting approach, Sheila. I will be reading more on it. "But, this becomes even more of an issue for us with our hyper-reactive nervous systems. We have to keep any treatment we try at a mild enough level, that it provokes only a mild, transient inflammatory response. And, we may have to wait until we’re stable enough to try even that."

Amen X 10.

[m&m]

I like the way you take a look into a broader spectrum and research the bigger picture. It is hard to get past the "flu symptoms" to even do that. :-) Thank you.

[Sheila]

Thanks, m&m! I enjoy puzzles. Ain’t that the truth, though? -- You have to feel at least one step above flattened in order to even do puzzles….

[Sheila]

Thanks, m&m! I enjoy puzzles. Ain’t that the truth, though? -- You have to feel at least one step above flattened in order to even do puzzles….

[Luc]

I can't stop thinking about the almost central element of it all, which is "inflammation". Having read so many people's stories and having been through WD experince myself, it looks like (and feels like) most of the symptoms out there are inflammation-induced. The connection between this and the impact cytokines have on the body is compelling to say the least... Keep those ideas and discussions coming in. Thank you for this, Sheila! At some point, it will be possible to get to the bottom of it and erase WD from the face of the Earth.

[Sheila]

Thanks, Luc. Inflammation seems to be the basis of just about all disease process. But, I’m confused, because I know of one person in severe w/d who has had tests that show they have very low inflammation levels. So, I guess, as usual, we have to say that nothing is true *all* the time. But, yes, inflammation may be key for many of us.

[squirrel]

Inflamation would explain the Pain, headaches & head pressure and a lot of the sinus stuff we get.

[m&m]

Sheila, do you know what type of tests were performed to show her inflammation levels? I have had a ct scan, MRI, and bone scan recently as well as ultrasound of certain areas and aside from the cancer stuff.... nothing was mentioned about inflammation. But they did say I had "prominent" lymph nodes under my arm which were biopsied and said to be benign. Just wondering what type of test was used for your friend to measure this or if you knew.

[Sheila]

I will ask that person, m&m...