What to reinstate?

[Cosette123]

The thinker,I think Luc has written very important words and I should have told you the same. It is very important for you to share what you are feeling and very important to be understood.I passed through the same fears than you many times in my life.But I was not able to explain because I was ashamed of myself.Big error: people who are suffering don't have to be ashamed.Thezy have to find help, friendship and understanding.

[Claudius]

Thinker I read your thread and I really want to express my deepest empathy and sorrow. All people here know me and my personal story, I had the hardest, most torturous and long-lasting PAxil WD of all time, now 5 years after CT I am sstill recovering, slowly but it happens.
But even in my deepest and darkest times I still went out with friends, went out swimming and drove my car. So it appears that your situation is even worse than mine.
Also you mention really serious original issues, though the sentence "your origiginal contion has returned" drive many of ut to anger, for some people there IS a long-lasting original condition which is very difficult to tackle. I can feel with you because I had my portion: buillied since childhood, many rejections my women, a useless academic study and some failed jobs.
Now 5 years on the road I am building my life again, I am 44 years old and still know I have some future. I really really hope you can find a way out and maybe reinstating something and postpone an eventual taper is an option for you. As Luc tells: any condition can be worked on, I realized only last years that I have been in a victim pattern since early childhood, was never able to stand up against evil people and was also tortured by anxiety in many forms.
I have been working on it with a good massage therapist and though it it still a hard and long road, there is improvement and I learn to know myself and the world better and better. I thknk you have that option too.

(DUTCH)
Het lijkt erop dat je NEderlands bent omdat je refereerde aan een Nederlandse vertaling. Als je echt zwaar suicidaal bent moet je echt hulp zoeken en daar ben ik ook niet de aangewezen persoon voor. Ik weet dat iemand zich heeft laten opnemen in een kliniek waar men wel op de hoogte is van de risico's van deze middelens en niet klakkeloos het voglende middel zonder begeleidng voorschrijven. Misschien is dat een idee?
In elk geval alle sterkte, ik hoop vanharte dat je toch ergens de kracht vandaan haalt en de ruimte krijgt van je omgeving om dit te overwinnen, al zal het een lange en zware weg zij.

[Thethinker]

Thanks. I am feeling very desperate cause i dont see a way out. Its like i am in a labyrinth and i have touched every brick with my hands but there is no way out.
I will think about your replies and respond better later today or tomorrow. i thank you all very much. I am having a very hard time now. Adrenalin rushing through my body and i can barely walk. This is mostly WD but that i can not leave the house or speak to anyone (no therapist or friend) is my big original disorder. But i am trying to survive now. Minute by minute. Just trying to manage without all those benzos or antipsychotics. i have much xanax and oxazepam laying here. Also seroquel. Doctors give me everything but for now i try to stay without and just try to calm my body. But it is one big andrenalin and panic rush. And i feel desperate and depressed and everything. I try to walk a bit outside and eat a bit. But its hard. And i have a one track mind..only 1 thing i obsessivly ruminate about "what to do, what meds to take, how to get out". Every positive scenario i can think of has severe down sides and risks. And every wrong thought in my head sends a rush of panic though my body. It has gone so far that i cant discuss it with the doctor or my family anymnore. I dont know. its like i overtalked it. When i speak of what to do or what meds to take or not take;..i get dizzy and panic like fainting. It is so weird;..i can not speak about it anymore.
I am so scared. I know i am in a state where antipsychotics is not the dumbest thing to take. But still i worry about the consequences.
I am sorry for talking so negatively and whining so much. I know people hate that and i hate that about myself. I also complain lately.

i will ask more questions later. For now i have to walk a bit in the room and silence the adrenalin a bit. Damnn another day passed in the 15 months. Still not able to do anything and still in so much fear. I hope i will ever get out. I am afraid it will be with meds. But which one? And they will poopout again and then what? And these meds dont tackle real issues. And what if no ssri works on me again? What then,..stay in house forever?

And the sick thing is;..a part of me still wants this. I can feel it. It is afraid of feeling good and afraid of a real life. It makes me cry. If i dont want out of this, how will i get out? I just have to hope another part of me wants out.
I am just scared. Thinking about death all day, and how my parents die,..and how i missed out on life,..and how everything dies and goes away. I was always very scared of death pre paxil as a kid and also just before i took paxil. It is a part of me. I just hope its also a bit WD. That this dark cloud in my head isnt totally me. i hope it will get better,..i am desperate. Another day spend in pure DP/adrenalin/panic and depression. Just laying on the ground in spasms. I hope my adrenalin gland will hold. Its been firing for months now but last week its insane. I am scared something bad will happen. This cant be good for the body,

I will rpely later with some constructive questions instead of complaining. PErhaps we can find a path out of this labyrinth that has the highest chance of success.

[Cosette123]

The thinker,here is a place where everybody may complaining without being afraid of the other people judgement or being ashamed of oneself.
I am not now in the same bad state than you but I have been in the past .You mention your fear of death as a child.I have this fear too and the W/D increased it a lot.
You wrote that you are not sure to want to be better.Maybe you have a high level of culpability which leads to self- destruction.I know that.But I am med-free since may 2008 now and these feeling are slightly going away.
I cannot say that I am better than before the meds but I am different and in one way, perhaps stronger.
My thoughts are with you.The hell cannot be eternal.

[Sheila]

TT -- I'm very sorry you are suffering so much pain. W/d takes our original issues and multiplies them by 1000. Your thoughts and feelings about everything will change dramatically in the future. Right now, you can't even imagine healing. Things are always changing. New ideas and help are always coming in.

If you can, focus on your breathing and start saying something kind to yourself like -- "Even though I'm aware that part of me does not want to heal, part of me wants very, very much to heal."

Also, consider setting a timer for ten minutes and try to not think about what to do about the medications for ten minutes. Say your mantra and breathe, or play a computer game, or someother pleasant distraction. Then, at the end of ten minutes, you can go back to thinking about the problem. Then, after awhile, try to take another ten minutes break. If ten minutes is too long, try one minute.

[Thethinker]

Thanks sheila.

I feel so down this morning. I keep crying and i feel so alone.

I can not speak to people. It is such a phobia. Last night i tried to walk outside to a store across my house. I wanted to buy some gum. but i wanted to pay for it and the guy looked at me and i had such a panic attack. I felt my heart beating out of my chest, i felt like fainting and my legs were shaking like a mad man. i could hardly speak. it was horrible. Being a person with a panic disorder i have had my share amounts of panic attacks, but this was like 3 attacks put in 1. So i put twice the amount of money down and run away.

last weeks more and more of these episodes appear so it gets harder every time. If i only think of someone now sitting in the same room as me;..i feel my stomach churn and turn.
How can this be? I had this pre paxil also. It is weird cause i am a real social guy. i like being with people. I am a peoples person. As a kid i wanted to entertain and made jokes. i always wanted the attention of everybody. On paxil the same. So its weird.

And if I think;.."TT, this is a phobia, you can beat this just step by step and facing and accepting the fear"...i feel that big feeling inside of not wanting to become better. That i must cling to anxiety and fear. I am so afraid of getting better.
I found a letter from myself. i wrote it to myself in 2009 when i was stil doing somewhat well on paxil. i wrote a couple of questions "why do i hold on to drama and fear instead of happiness",..."why do i find it so important what other people think of me",..."why cant i reach to my true feelings".
I guess i was already busy with that back then. My guess to those questions would be that i am so so afraid of death and losing things. I am an insecure man that hates that live changes and wish everything would remain the same. But since it doesnt its better to stay in hell then to risk losing stuff. But thats just a guess, like i have many more.

I know you guys cant solve my severe mental issues. I think i just wanna talk about it. I dont feel like a man, but like a kid. A man gets a girlfriend, marries, gets a job and sticks with it, doesnt depend on his parents his whole life, a man is responsible and is independent. Like i am not and never have been.
And if i hate that so much;..why dont i do something about it? I am to weak.
Anyways i need some serious therapy and help. I cant get that if i cant leave the house easily or speak to another living soul. So i need an antidepressant to do that and pray i will get some good therapy that will work and i can see and feel and work on my real issues. All though drugs masks your true feelings so how can you work on them then? Anyways i must hope. And perhaps after some therapy i can start a slow taper on the drugs instead of a CT. And hopefully i can do that before they poopout on me. A lot of "hopes" i know.

But off course after my history with drugs, first return of symptoms with paxil and then the CT to lexapro which made my land in the mental ward. Ohh i had so much fear and problems with sleeping. And i had insane brainfog and DP/DR. Really was insane. Off course i am afraid that all that will come back as soon as i reinstate a drug. But again;.what else to do, i seriously can not go on like this;...shaking like a leaf from fear and barely able to walk and all alone in the house. And with a big part of me wanting that hell. Thats just a deathmans trap. But i am taking risks with reinstating a drug.

What to do?

1. I thought paxil stopped working. Or 15 mg was to low so my original problem came back, but is that likely? My problems were back in full force,..after a 5 mg drop? Could that be? When one has a poopout does that also bring other symptoms like insomnia, zaps etc? Or only that the drug is losing efficiency?
I am sooo praying that it is NOT that the drug still worked but that my mental issues and my original disorder got bigger. That i wanted this hell and therefore i broke through the paxil. At age 35 life was getting more serious and perhaps i couldnt handle that. I so hope not. You see that with alcoholics. No matter how much help people provide;..they just keep drinking themselves to their death. ohhh i hope i am not one of those.

2. I dont want to reinstate lexapro. So its either paxil or other ssri like zoloft or prozac. Now stan has mentioned that other ssri wont cover the wd of another drug. But isnt my original problem currently my bigger problem then the WD? The WD is currently making me depressed and giving me ruminating obsessive thoughts and adrenalin bursts. But the rest is my original disorder. Another ssri might be better to cover that since paxil might have pooped out. Does that makes sense? Or would you guys still say;..if you try a drug; try paxil?

3.) If i reinstate paxil, luc told me to start at very low dose. What kind of dose? 1 or 2 mg? And for how long and when increase? if i wanna work on my real issues i must become stable. And since 15 mg didnt work anymore in sept 2011;..its not likely 10 mg will do much good now. If i was having severe zaps and insomnia etc etc;..a few mg reinstate might calm me down. But i have my insane original disorder. Again;..i have to be able to speak to people. Or at least be calm enough to work on that. So if i should reinstate paxil..in what kind of tempo?


Thanks guys. I hope i can be happy again and leave my house after 15 months of hell. All i can think of now is death, how my family will leave me once, that i will always be alone and how i am a loser. Thats the problem with going back on meds;..i will always remember i wasnt strong enough to fix it myself. But i gave it 15 months.
I dont believe in the serotonin deficiency theory. That some people need drugs. And even if thats true;..an ssri is just to blunt instrument and causes damage. But what if the person has a severe mental problem. What then? Not even me,..another example. 11 years ago i was in a mental clinic (a cbt clinic) for 5 months. It was when my phobias started and i slept there to work on them. Some severe cases there. There was a girl that had to leave because she was to severe. She had such OCD that she wanted to clean herself and her environment. She was scrubbing her body with chlorine until she bleed. She could not touch anything without using tissues etc. She washed her hair with toxic stuff. it was awfully case of OCD.
I am not saying i am that bad. But what of those people? All these forums saying ssris cause damage to body and brain. And they pooping out. What of people with real mental issues? Psychotic is always considered to be the worst. But trust me if i say that there are OCD and anxiety disorders in such a way;..horrible.

Anyways i am gonna try to use sheilas tip and try not to think about my problems for 10 mins. Will be hard. But i will try.

And sorry that i am not really a ray of sunshine at the moment

ps: Cossette;..what does "culpability" means?

[Sheila]

You might think in terms of the Harm Reduction model – don’t try to embrace being 100% well. You have real internal conflict about that, and that conflict has to be worked on slowly. Just aim for being 5% better than you are. Life would still stay very much the same, but it would be slightly less hellish. That 5% will allow you to pursue various approaches to working through your conflict about getting well.

There are psychotherapists who will work on the phone or Skype.

[stan]

if you reinstate, as Luc says, a very small dose and after 2/3 weeks, adding another small dose and wait to see how you feel;

[Cosette123]

ps: Cossette;..what does "culpability" means?

Wow!What a mistake I did! I meant "guilt" ("culpabilité in french).My english which was very good a few years ago became crappy because of the w/d!
I have had this feeling of guilt for years: I felt guilty to be alive.I have always lived with the feeling that my mother did not love me, nor accept me.
And I have always tried to punish myself(Automutilation, high anxiety...)

[Sheila]

Françoise -- Your English was excellent. Culpability is a perfect English word, a fancy word for guilt. And I thought your point was an excellent one. I, too, am very aware of having lots of guilt and a propensity to punish myself.